Left and Right: Put Up Or Shut Up

I’m joining with friends and fellow bloggers Micah Sifry, Michael J. Totten, and
Roger L. Simon, among others in endorsing and supporting Spirit of America.
This is a people-people project just put together by renown blogger the Armed Liberal (who has now revealed himself to be Marc Danziger). I challenge everyone who clicks on this blog to take a moment and make a contribution to this project which will directly aid the Iraqi people. This effort crosses all ideological lines. Nobody has a valid excuse for abstaining. If you supported the war, here’s your chance to be more than an armchair general and it’s time to stop yammering about building democracy and start doing something about it.

If you opposed the war, as I did, then here’s a chance to do more than walk around in a circle with a placard in hand. Now you can offer some concrete solidarity to the Iraqi people. So, once again, contribute now to Spirit of America.

Also check out Jeff Jarvis for the most detailed and passionate description of the project. Whether you are on the Right or the Left… time to put up or shut up.

Comments

[steve]

I see one of the 'projects' is bringing an 'unbiased media' to Iraq. Is there any precedent of the Marines bringing such a thing to any nation? How will they define 'anti-coalition propaganda'?

[steve]

I didn't make a contribution to US approved media building, but I did make a contribution to this independent media work in Iraq:

http://blog.newstandardnews.net/iraqdispatches/archives/000489.html

And I've supported this NGO working in Iraq:

http://www.cpt.org/adopt/adopt_a_detainee.php

[Michael J. Totten]

Thanks, Marc.

[steve]

Here's another fine charity for labor rights in Iraq. I doubt you'll find it supported by spirit of america, for after all it's not really in keeping with the Spirit Of America. If I support that charity, is that sufficient, or do I still have to support a pro-war charity to be PC?

Do any of the prowar bloggers out there support efforts like solidarity with labor activists in Iraq? Do they support the revoking of Saddam's labor laws, which Bremer seems rather fond of?

http://www.uslaboragainstwar.org/article.php?id=4694

[rosedog]

Good idea, Marc. (And Michael, Micah, Roger and Steve, you too.)

[steve]

I wonder if Roger Simon would support labor rights in Iraq or giving a donation to organizations that organize to resist Bremer/Saddam's labor laws?
My sense is this appeal to the "Spirit of America" from war bloggers is due to the organization's support for the US occupation of Iraq, it gives it a prettier face basically, but changes little about its ugly and pointless substance.
As Michael Perleman put it on his pen-l list, 'why give to Spirit when Bechtel is doing such a fine job building schools in Iraq?'.

[wil]

Sigh... It's really come to this?

"My Iraqi charity is better than your Iraqi charity!"

[steve]

wil, yes, i'd say it's worth asking that question, even if it's a hard pill to swallow. is it wrong to ask if the US Marines has any place in determining what media are good for Iraq and bad? Why would anyone want to contribute to such a venture?

Why would any charity organization want to work to promote the image of the US military in a country that is illegally occupied? A funny kind of 'charity' organization whose purpose seems more American centered than Iraqi centered.

One might not like that I raise such un-PC questions, but they are nonetheless worth thinking about.

[Michael J. Totten]

Steve,

I apologize for tooting my own horn here, and I wouldn't except that you're asking for it...I raised more than 4,000 dollars for Iraq through Spirit of America. What you have done for that country lately?

I don't know for absolute certain if my friend Roger Simon would support labor rights in Iraq, but I'd put good money on "yes." I certainly support labor rights, but there are other things Iraq needs too. There is more to life than left-wing politics, you know.

[steve]

I apologize for tooting my own horn here, and I wouldn't except that you're asking for it...I raised more than 4,000 dollars for Iraq through Spirit of America. What you have done for that country lately?

--I donated money to Newstandard and to Christian Peacemakers' Iraqi detainee aid program. Congrats on your aid to the Marines' project of bringing 'independent' media to Iraq.
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I don't know for absolute certain if my friend Roger Simon would support labor rights in Iraq, but I'd put good money on "yes."

--I'd put my money on no. But post that donation link to your blog if you really believe in labor rights in Iraq. I'd be happy to provide you with the long list of unions that support that project, if needed. But the project is not Marines or Bremer approved. Nor would the folks who run "Spirit of America" support it.
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I certainly support labor rights, but there are other things Iraq needs too.

--they need labor rights a lot more than baseball uniforms and frisbees i'd guess. but then again, I'm not very PC anyway, what do I know.

[Michael J. Totten]

Steve: "Nor would the folks who run "Spirit of America" support it."

Marc Danziger, the Chief Operations Officer of Spirit of America, is a liberal and a personal friend of mine. So you're wrong. We're not all a bunch of right-wing death beasts. We just aren't, though it appears you feel better believing otherwise.

[steve]

Marc Danziger, the Chief Operations Officer of Spirit of America, is a liberal and a personal friend of mine. So you're wrong. We're not all a bunch of right-wing death beasts. We just aren't, though it appears you feel better believing otherwise.

--i didn't say anything about being right wing, i said prowar or prowar with minor reservations. why should it surprise me danziger is a liberal? so is lieberman, zel miller, clinton,...so was scoop jackson. whenever you can't deal with a criticism you claim that someone has said something, whether or not they said it, and then think that suffices as a rebuttal. Mork is right on this one, you avoid key issues and resort to obfuscation when confronted with issues that you don't want to address.

[Michael J. Totten]

No, Steve. You said my personal friends are opposed to labor rights, and the only reason you think that is because they're raising charity money for Iraq through an organization you don't like because it's bipartisan instead of pacifist. That is extremely obnoxious. You're a troll, and also a thread-hog.

[steve]

You said my personal friends are opposed to labor rights, and the only reason you think that is because they're raising charity money for Iraq through an organization you don't like because it's bipartisan instead of pacifist.

--I asked if they would support the call for donations that I linked to and I surmised, reasonably I would suggest, that they would not. I don't recall stating that I'm a pacifist. I certainly supported the right of the FMLN and the Sandinistas to use arms in the 1980's, the ANC's right to be armed, etc. I'm hardly a pacifist, though pacifists like David Dellinger, Martin Luther King, or Rosa Parks are certainly in my book as those worthy of great admiration and not as a target of slurs.
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That is extremely obnoxious. You're a troll, and also a thread-hog.

--This I find to be a frequent response to any challenges to you. Once you have no answers to difficult questions, it's out with the 'troll' charge, or 'hogging' charge. No Michael, hogging or trolling is characterised by entirely irrelevant arguments or angry cursing, name calling, etc. I've merely provided a criticism of an organization that you believe is sacrosanct and worthy of only praise.

[Mork]

*Mork is right on this one, you avoid key issues and resort to obfuscation when confronted with issues that you don't want to address.*

Steve, please, I said that Michael was not arguing on the facts on one occasion. I did not make it a general charge.

And, for the record, I think Michael generally does a better job of dealing fairly and honestly with other people's arguments than you do (no matter how erroneous his conclusions!).

[Michael J. Totten]

Thanks, Mork. It is (usually) a pleasure to disagree. (Except when we don't, which is always better.)

[Mork]

No need to thank me. Just callin' it how I see it.

[Marc Coope]

Steve.. Im really getting bored with your troll-ism. Please stop casting asperions on the motivation of others who post here and those who are linked here. Reel it or Im going to start billing you for the maintenance costs of this site.

[steve]

And, for the record, I think Michael generally does a better job of dealing fairly and honestly with other people's arguments than you do

--I'd respectfully disagree. I find that when he can't deal with my arguments he's quick to resort to calling for my being banned. He's quick to doubt the patriotism of anyone who takes a position along the lines of Noam Chomsky like myself. I don't find that much about my own politics that differ from a Rosa Parks, MLK or Doug Henwood frankly, the source of such hostile reaction is unknown to me.

[Michael J. Totten]

Time to get Steve's billing address.

[Leon Trollsky]

steve, if you don't know, take a wild guess. I'd tell you to pick my brains, but I used that phrase once too many.

[Marc Cooper]

God help the Iraqi people if the "independent" media they get comes from the Newstandard people. In any case, steve, ur donation doesn't go to the iraqi people. It goes to newstandard's gringo "reporters." And I purposefully put that word in quotes. I have no faith in the US Marines to bring objective media to Iraq. I have the same no faith in the wankers at newsstandards.

[steve]

I was being unnecessarily humble, thanks trot.

[GMRoper]

Steve writes: "I'm not very PC anyway, what do I know."

Steve, Au Contraire, I think you are extremely PC and given your anti-(fill in the blank) I have to agree with the second part of your statement.

[Roger L. Simon]

"--I'd put my money on no. But post that donation link to your blog if you really believe in labor rights in Iraq. I'd be happy to provide you with the long list of unions that support that project, if needed. But the project is not Marines or Bremer approved. Nor would the folks who run "Spirit of America" support it."

Okay, Steve, I'd put money on yes and I'm the guy himself. Go figure. I've always supported labor rights and still do. Just as I support gay marriage and so-called left social causes, if the term left means anytning anymore, which I doubt.

NOW GET THIS AND GET THIS CLEAR: The reason I supported the War in Iraq is to me that is the progressive side. I know that it may be a tad confusing to you, but I'm for taking out fascist dictators when it's reasonably possible. Call it Hitler flashback. And you know what -- history may well prove me right. It's been scarcely more than a year and Iraq doesn't look nearly so bad as the naysayers want us to believe.