Light Posting

I'm doing some reporting on the politics of Indian casinos this week in Southern California's Coachella Valley. Posting will be light over the next few days.

Comments

[steve]

Speaking of lite fare, i notice on the warrior blogs, the powell admission that the so-called report on terrorism that understimated the extent of terrorist acts in the post-911 period has gone unnoticed. they were citing it madly in the war blogs only a week ago. Instead ya find things like Roger Simon going on about Russert the 'liberal' [a man who thinks highly of Limbaugh is a 'liberal' in the view of the slightly nervous] or calling for a Saudi Monarchy partner to run for office in the US...though that's an odd wish, we've already got one in the office of the presidency.
The Sarin gas hurrah seems to have fizzled almost as fast as the excitement about the farcical arrest of Brandon Mayfield for the Spanish bombings...Nada on the war blogs....

[a plea]

steve, enough already...

[steve]

my apology to the echo chamber seekers.

[Michael J. Totten]

Steve,

This is not a "war blog." It's in no danger of becoming a "war blogger echo chamber" without your contributing to it.

[steve]

This is not a "war blog." It's in no danger of becoming a "war blogger echo chamber" without your contributing to it.

--I know it's not a war blog, but the war lovers sure do like an echo chamber, thus anytime they encounter a point of view they can't handle, it's cries of "troll" and calls for banning. for crying out loud, all i did was put up a few thoughts, ya'd think i'd called someone a traitor or sworn my head off like the cons do on the warblogs...

how about i leave out the sarcasm and simply note that the same loonies who were going absolutely wild on your list and roger's list about the fake report on terrorism seem awfully quite about this latest revelation. i suppose that explains their sensitivity to my bringing it up at all.

btw, a serious book on the media just came out, one that puts goldberg's to shame bigtime. it's by david brock, who has a really fine analysis of the whole echo chamber syndrome out on far right and 'center right' blogs. and he also has a fine analysis of the utterly joke level analysis that informs the screeds against Tim Russert's "liberalism".

marc really should do an interview with Brock.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1400048753/qid=1087358353/sr=ka-1/ref=pd_ka_1/102-7911536-3351364

[Michael J. Totten]

Steve: "I know it's not a war blog, but the war lovers sure do like an echo chamber, thus anytime they encounter a point of view they can't handle, it's cries of "troll" and calls for banning."

If I required a pro-war echo chamber I wouldn't bother to read Marc's blog or his books. And if I did what you say I do I wouldn't allow him in the comments of my Web site let alone in my house.

Some of the people who argue with me here also argue with me on my own blog and I haven't banned any of them. You're the only one I've called a troll, even though plenty of people like to argue with me and present counter points of view. Just something to think about.

[steve]

And if I did what you say I do I wouldn't allow him in the comments of my Web site let alone in my house.

--from what i've seen on your blog, you ban faster than the CPA bans newspapers and that's not easy. i've seen the echo chamber over there, the minute you receive a challenge from the left that you don't want to deal with, you claim someone is trolling. all the swearing, name calling from right wing commentators goes unpunished comparatively. then the same guys who are swearing and name calling come over here and do the same thing, only to demand that left wing perspectives they don't want to hear be banned on this list as well.
-------------------------------------
Some of the people who argue with me here also argue with me on my own blog and I haven't banned any of them. You're the only one I've called a troll, even though plenty of people like to argue with me and present counter points of view. Just something to think about.

--my impression is you're quick to ban anyone who brings up a point that makes you uncomfortable if they are on the left. the antics of the far right patriotically correct are subject to far more toleration, though they tend to resort to name calling and swearing almost instinctively in lieu of serious argument. it's interesting, like i've said before, that although you complain about "PC" on the left, you're far quicker to ban than someone on the left like Max Sawicky, whose comment section is quite rich in diversity of views and intellectual backgrounds. I've never seen Max expel people for the kinds of things that set you off. Henwood's LBO list is another fine example of far more toleration of diverse views and a high level of discussion, ditto the Progressive economists list that michael perleman runs. that is no small irony.

[Michael J. Totten]

I'm not going to argue with Steve about this any more. But for anyone else who is reading this thread, I'd like to defend myself from Steve's slanderous and utterly false accusation. I have banned people from my site but always and only for obnoxious behavior, never once for disagreeing with me. Right-wingers get banned as often as left-wingers. Party registration is not and never will be a bannable offense. I'm a registered Democrat in any case.

[Marc Cooper]

steve.. this is pointless and totally boring. Please stop now-- no one cares but you are sure are boring the shit out of the rest of us. Blogs, to me, are like someone's living room. You are on one as a courtesy to the host. He or she is free to slam the door on anyone. Now just move on off this subject.

[yfb]

It's only boring because Totten et. al. refuse to address the substantive issue.
The war was supposed to make us safer, but numerous intelligence and terrorism
analysts have said the opposite. Presumably that's why war apologists seized
upon the report that said that terrorism post-9/11 had declined. But now that
it has been confirmed that terrorism has in fact increased, they are silent.
It's hard to interpret that as anything other than intellectual dishonesty.

[topo gigio]

>>Blogs, to me, are like someone's living room. You are on one as a courtesy to the host. He or she is free to slam the door on anyone. Now just move on off this subject.<<

Et tu, Marchetto? People who use the "living room" cliché ought to be gelded :) The blog racket it's more like pitching one's tent and setting up one's table in the free zone that's the Net. Just look at the inviting wares showcased on the left side of your own cyber bazaar, each appropriately hyped. And it's telling that you write "as a courtesy TO" rather than "BY the host".

Without us compulsive shoppers or looky-loos logging on, your baby would be dead in the water. You're free to shut anybody out, just like a proprietor can refuse to serve a riotous customer, but beyond that you'd be cutting your nose to spite your face.

[steve]

But now that
it has been confirmed that terrorism has in fact increased, they are silent.
It's hard to interpret that as anything other than intellectual dishonesty.

--I think that is an important part of the fear of antiwar perspectives and the nearly paranoid belief that they are prominent in the media, universities, etc. when you hear people describing russert as a 'liberal' or as someone who is not supportive of the occupation of Iraq, ya know you're dealing with some wierd levels of heightened anxiety.

[yfb]

> I think that is an important part of the fear of antiwar perspectives and the nearly paranoid belief that they are prominent in the media, universities, etc.

"etc" is right:

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/in_a_world_of_shit.php

I guess the Naval War College is now "liberal".

> when you hear people describing russert as a 'liberal' or as someone who is not supportive of the occupation of Iraq, ya know you're dealing with some wierd levels of heightened anxiety.

This sort of intellectual corruption is far too common for me to find it weird. There are two basic elements involved; one is self-interest -- the right wingers and "cruise missile liberals" love American power and what it brings them, and wish to justify its unilateral exertion. The other is avoiding the cognitive dissonance of coming to believe that one was in error -- this is independent of politics or subject. Willard V. O. Quine, the pre-eminent American philosopher of the 20th century, put it this way:

"The desire to be right and the desire to have been right are two desires, and the sooner we separate them the better off we are. The desire to be right is the thirst for truth. On all accounts, both practical and theoretical, there is nothing but good to be said for it. The desire to have been right, on the other hand, is the pride that goeth before a fall. It stands in the way of our seeing we were wrong, and thus blocks the progress of our knowledge."

[yfb]

Chickens coming home to roost:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/18/opinion/18ZIAD.html

[steve]

excellent url yfb. note how the armchair warrior blogs will tell us that it is wrong to make links between poverty, inequality, and terrorism. that article is one of the best responses to the kneejerk reaction of 'poverty doesn't cause terrorism' from the armchair warrior bloggers.
even phillipino president (a right wing US ally) has made as much a connection in the presence of Bush. Then again, the NYT article can now be cited out in Blogistan as more 'evidence' that the media is 'antiwar', reproducing the already heightened state of anxiety about antiwar influences in the media!

[steve]

Or consider the bizarre comparisons of Michael Moore to Ann Coulter. Can you imagine if Moore made even 1/10th of the huge errors she makes in her 'books'? Sometimes ya read stuff out there in the prowar blogs that makes your head spin. What has Moore said, for example, that is anything that Martin Luther King wasn't saying in his time? Then again, since both had strong views, I guess we could say that King was to George Wallace as Coulter is to Moore [!].
and in the 'anti-war' media, guess who has a far easier time showing up as a commentator on the big newstalk shows?

[yfb]

> and in the 'anti-war' media, guess who has a far easier time showing up as a commentator on the big newstalk shows?

Ann Coulter just has to call all liberals traitors and threaten them with death; Michael Moore has to win the Palme d'Or (ah, those French! -- like Quentin Tarantino).

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php

``Also, I am going to be on the "Late Show with David Letterman" on Friday night. It's on CBS at 11:35 PM Eastern and Pacific. And on Monday morning (June 21) I will be on "The Today Show" on NBC. Next week, Jon Stewart and Conan. I'd go on O'Reilly but, like a coward, he walked out on a screening we invited him to (with Al Franken just a few rows away!). I personally caught him sneaking out. Embarrassed, he tried to change the subject. He said, "When are you coming on my show?" and I said, "Turn around and watch the rest of the movie and I will come on your show." He walked out. Fair and balanced.''

[Tom Grey]

Terrorism in the US is certainly down from 2001.

I think terrorism in Israel is down for 2004 from the first half of 2003.

Hard to know how to count terrorism in Iraq, vs. "normal" oppressive mass grave creation. I'd say fewer are dying -- certainly fewer are dying than the number many Leftists claimed were dying under sanctions.

Does the Dafur genocide, so underdiscussed because of Abu and Bush-hate, count? If so the count goes way up.

But, unfortunately, these aren't good measures of terrorism. There aren't any, globally. Maybe some locally.

[steve]

Hard to know how to count terrorism in Iraq, vs. "normal" oppressive mass grave creation. I'd say fewer are dying -- certainly fewer are dying than the number many Leftists claimed were dying under sanctions.

--no serious scholar of Iraq would agree with that statement.

[yfb]

> Does the Dafur genocide, so underdiscussed because of Abu and Bush-hate, count? If so the count goes way up.

So was Rwandan genocide underdiscussed because of Clinton-hate? I suggest that it's for other reasons.
And since this is state-executed terror, you're not
supposed to call it terrorism -- that's against the
rules, lest we or one of our allies gets tarred with
that brush.

> I'd say fewer are dying

And you would say that catsup is a vegetable. You don't seem to know much about either.

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