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Tuesday, November 02, 2004

Comments

passingthrough

The really scary aspect of it all is the conviction, expressed by practically all the media, that the primary motivation of Bush voters was protecting "moral values."

Tom Grey

Right, EPI says Soc Sec is not "broken" -- just need to increase taxes (on the super-rich) to give more to the rich middle classes whose tax payments are less than they receive.

The math is not that hard. After 40 years, an Avg. worker has some X amount taken out. Is that person going to get X back in benefits? or X+, more than they put in? Or X-, less than they put in? So far, since FDR started it, most folk getting benefits have gotten MORE than they put in, unless they die young. (Smoking HELPS the SS issue -- smokers more often die younger, get X-; leave more for the rest).

Since benefits are capped on top, tax contributions were also capped. The EPI paper advocates removing the "pay" cap -- so So Sec. becomes redistribution of Super Rich Folk taxes to the more numerous Rich in benefits. This ends the "insurance" aspect--the EPI folk want to adjust/ break the system, but call it fixed!

Means testing also punishes the responsible and favors the irresponsible; changing from insurance to redistribution. (I favor it, slightly, WITH a transition to individual accounts.)

The boomers about to retire break the current system. If it wasn't "broken", it wouldn't need the changes.

Dems have to stop their Envy of the rich, and their constant desire to punish, er, tax the rich so as to do something "better" -- have their own Dem friends consume mass quantities (rather than invest in profitable, job-creating businesses).

Dermot

Two things....

Marc's at it again....why oh why pieces about the Democrats being crocked (I think he's right, to an extent) but no real discussion of what could replace the current mess. While he's a journalist and its not his job, he's also a citizen, and hardly "objective". What is his sense, in a more specific way, about where the left *could* go?

And for all the rightist triumphalists, if every political movement gave up and went home when it got beaten, you'd all be Great Society liberals by now. People can change their minds...yes even 3 million Republican voters. And there's four more years to change their minds, methinks.

steve

"Right, EPI says Soc Sec is not "broken" -- just need to increase taxes (on the super-rich) to give more to the rich middle classes whose tax payments are less than they receive."

You didn't read Dean Baker very carefully (and I think he's even been interviewed by Marc on his show a number of times). He argues quite correctly that SS is only in trouble if you assume the US is going to be in a state of recession for 30 years or so consecutively. Your version of what Baker wrote is plainly misinterpretation at best.
Nathan Newman, who I believe is a good friend of Marc's and someone whose ideas on economics Marc respects has a good writeup on the matter too:
http://www.budgetsim.org/log/archives/001278.shtml

Max Sawicky, whose blog is listed approvingly by Marc and whom Marc respects considerably on economic issues also has done good work taking apart the myth of SS's 'impending collapse'...

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