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Tuesday, December 14, 2004

Comments

rosedog

Heartbreaking, frightening, terrible. I'm glad you're lingering. The three links were excellent. But, just what your friend wrote is upsetting enough.

Also, yes, the LA Times news story was as bad as you thought the second time around. I was really appalled at the meanness of spirit.

BTW, I thought this ‘graph was particularly worthwhile in your last link, the "Consortium" piece.

“…Unintentionally, Webb also exposed the cowardice and unprofessional behavior that had become the new trademarks of the major U.S. news media by the mid-1990s. The big news outlets were always hot on the trail of some titillating scandal – the O.J. Simpson case or the Monica Lewinsky scandal – but the major media could no longer grapple with serious crimes of state…”

Marc Cooper

Rosedog: Indeed.. look at the "news" resources spent this week on Scott Peterson (including by the august LA Times) and ask yourself what percentage of that amount is being spent to currently investigate what links "we" now have to the Afghan drug lords. Someday a year from now someone will run a series saying "shocked, shocked" looks like the CIA was playing footsie with the heroine barons. Can u imagine?

steve

Even better, can you imagine if the media were truly liberal or 'left-wing' as paranoid conspiracy theorists like Mr. Goldberg would have it, would they not spend far more energy and resources memorializing Gary Webb? One more plain piece of evidence the 'liberal' media conspiracy theory is not much when it's unpacked.

this guy steve is a broken record.

Ahmed

Steve, i agree with you from time to time but lay off the repetivenss a bit, will you. I want to direct people to an excellent series of interviews democracy now ran with gary webb sevreal years ago http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/07/0339248&mode=thread&tid=5
, as well a feature they did after his death http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/13/1457240&mode=thread&tid=25

I also would like to commend Marc doing his part for keeping this story, as well as Gary's terrible ordeals alive in our conciousness. Gary's story got no play, not because of liberal or right wing media biases that we hear of ad nauseum, but rather, that the media and our culture in general are biased towards concensus. The crimes our state engages in, the people we victimize simply don't matter, whether it be Nicaruaguans terrorized by the Contras or inner city blacks whose neighbourhoods are flooded with drugs.


Ahmed

This is from Richard Thieme, talking about the hounding, harassment and exile of Gary Webb

Voices of clarity and conscience are effectively controlled and spun into irrelevance rather than silenced. Marginalization is more effective than assassination it leaves no dead heroes as leaders, after all - and there's no blood.

steve

" not because of liberal or right wing media biases that we hear of ad nauseum,"

I would certainly never say the media are right wing--certainly you don't read that into my comments I hope, merely corporate and capitalist consensus making to the core. i suppose you have a point about the repetition, though repitition is hardly my monopolized commodity here. generally it is however the only one noticed or excoriated?

Michael J. Totten

Steve: "repitition is hardly my monopolized commodity here. generally it is however the only one noticed or excoriated?"

That's right, Steve. We're all out to git ya.

When a room full of people tells you to sit down and be quiet, maybe it really is time to sit down and be quiet. Maybe the problem really is you and not everyone else.

Marc Cooper

Michael... as I promised publicly, Im not going to engage steve nor give him the satisfaction of banning him (yet). But damn I will tell you this guy's got something like Turret's Syndrome.... what a predictable reportoire of repeated phrases. He's been told 10,000 times but you just said it best. How much better he would be received if he actually HEARD what people said about him: stop repeating pat phrases. Engage in real exchange of ideas and stay on topic. No chance!

steve

Marc, you say I don't engage in real ideas, but your good friend and comrade Randy Paul has actually engaged me in discussion, quite fruitfully. I've had numerous intelligent exhcanges with people on this list who disagree with me. When you claim, perhaps because it is embarrassing to have someone like me who disagrees with you *and* takes the political positions of people you are friends with. If my level of 'repettion' reached even 1/10th the level of repetition on Totten's comments section from the Mussolini lobby, I'd concede you have a point.

GMRoper

Marc, please pass on to your friend Mr. Crosby a word from a mental health professional: He is not to blame. What is to blame is our general society's ambivalence towards treating depression, witness the brouhaha over Eagleton's vice president canidacy in '72. It is not narcissistic to think that a word or attention may have helped, that is a very human and very wonderful thought, and indicates true compassion for the individual.

On the "repititous steve" issue, my grandfather once said "If someone tells you something about yourself, feel free to ignore it as it is only one person's opinion. If two or more are telling you the same thing, you would be foolish not to pay attention."

Again, suicide is a tragic ending to any life, regardless of the circumstances but especially when it's due to despondency and depression, my condolences to the entire community that knew Mr. Webb.

steve

"On the "repititous steve" issue, my grandfather once said "If someone tells you something about yourself, feel free to ignore it as it is only one person's opinion. If two or more are telling you the same thing, you would be foolish not to pay attention.""

GM, I'm sorry to see you jumping on the bandwagon, especially when I even conceded to Ahmed that there might be something to his suggestion. However, I think you're a reasonable person. If you're telling me I'm as repetitive as Moore or Legere, or the endlessly repetitive commenters on Totten's Blog--god, think of Tom Grey's endless "x is unpatriotic because they disagree with me" threads...I'd be very surprised. And I'd be surprised you believe Marc's claim that I never engage in fruitful exchanges, since a good number of the ones I've engaged in have been with you in the last few months.

Josh Legere

Mental illness still has a stigma in the country. Crosses ideological lines...

GM - Know anything about Narcissism? Would a narcissist compare his “struggle” on a blog to that of MLK?

jim hitchcock

Steve, I do not know you well enough to tell you you remind of the
Eveready Bunny, so please take this in the spirit it was intended.

steve

"GM - Know anything about Narcissism? Would a narcissist compare his “struggle” on a blog to that of MLK?"

Need I anymore empirical evidence? 1) Of course I never said that, no more than I said I am a pacifist, which Legere believed for the longest time. However, think of the tolerance of Totten or Marc for Legere's frequent repetitive references to my "comparison of Iraq to the Bosox" [I mean, at least my points about the liberal media speak to real issues?], or the endless references to his false claims about Chomsky on Afghanistan, etc., all usually unrelated to the topic at hand.
Or, consider, surely at the same level of discourse, Moore's frequent repetitive Swift Boat propaganda that popped into almost every topic he discusssed for easily a few months in posts that tend to be easily 3-10 times longer than mine...
Ah yes, Mr. Totten, I've never engaged in any civil exchanges on this comments blog and I repeat myself far more than Messers Moore or Legere. Surely your perspective isn't ideologically informed.

Marc Davidson

For what it's worth, I'll stand up for Steve's contribution here. I don't think anyone here has a monopoly on repetitious postings. We all have an axe to grind and this is a good forum for thoughtful and generally civil discourse. I often scroll through boring postings here and elsewhere. I would invite the less tolerant among us to use their scroll bar as necessary.

GMRoper

Steve, I'm not jumping on any bandwagon, I'm only saying that lot's of others have said you are repitious, and that being the case, you should look at it as a possibility. I have always followed my granddads advice, it usually opens my eyes to something I'm doing that while it may not harm me, it usually doesn't help me either.

Peace, Love and Go Redsox; 2fer in '05

GMRoper

Josh, I know a hell of a lot about narcissism, however, I'm made so many mental health insights on Marc's Blog that I need to start charging... so, if you will forward an e-check..... ;-)

rosedog

"For what it's worth, I'll stand up for Steve's contribution here. I don't think anyone here has a monopoly on repetitious postings."

What Marc Davidson said.

Sheesh, guys. I've noted annoying repetitiveness among lots of posters at moments...and probably at times been guilty of it myself. If Steve bugs you, ignore him. If you find one of his comments interesting, engage him. Good gravy, if you think Steve is boring and predictable at times, that ain’t nothin’ compared to the snooze-producing quality of this “Let’s All Collectively Improve Steve's Character” bullsh*t that pops up on an average of once every six threads. Get over it! (And I mean that in the nicest possible way.)

steve

"I'm only saying that lot's of others have said you are repitious, and that being the case, you should look at it as a possibility."

--uhm, gee, I did, did I not? Would that we could say the same for others, I wouldn't have a reaction that Totten opportunistically and hypocritically labels as 'paranoid'. Seriously GM, you are a generally quite reasonable person with whom I've had lively and civil disagreements, am I *really* more repetitive or long winded than Moore or Legere? Is that what the argument is? I would expect that from some folks who are ideologically driven to ban me from this list, but not from you frankly.
Rosedog, you've put it beautifully. BTW, if one really wants to see change from Steve, why not engage people like Rosedog (with whom, I hate to repeat myself, I've had numerous civilly expressed disagreements with contrary to the echo chamber claim to the contrary.)

Ahmed

I politely mentioned Steve's repetiveness, mostly beacuse his bland statement on the liberal left media had little, if anything, to do his the thread, and added nothing substancial to the discussion. A thread worth of Steve bashing material is certainly not neccesarry. He doesn't have a monopoly on repetetion nor absurdities, as Josh's characterisation of Said's vast intellectual work to "playing the victim" indicates.

I second rosedog's invocation to shift this discussion away from certain personalities and towards the realm of ideas.

peace

GMRoper

Steve, I should never take anyone's inventory. Please accept my apology.

George

steve

Not at all GM, I wish Marc or Josh were even 1/10th as humble as you.

Woody

I like you, steve.

You're persistent and consistent--both good qualities. Now, if you could just temper them by leaning a little to the right....


Now, can we get back on topic?

steve

Thanks Woody, I hope Totten and others who are pushing for my banning are listening. It gets tiring having to defend myself against people who can't argue against my arguments (arguments that are ironically no different from those that win such persons' respect and even friendship amazingly) and wish simply to create an echo-chamber of "Ban Steve!!". One wonders why it's not possible to simply argue with my arguments instead of pretending I'm some Amy Goodman disciple or worshipper of Kim Sungil who is utterly irrational.
BTW, I've made an effort to not go overboard in sarcasm when arguing with people like GM or Woody, something I used to not care much about. Even though their politics are very different from mine, I like that they are engageable when engaged by me. Will I move right? Doubtful, but I do respect their general lack of a need to cry for banning when someone says something they dislike.

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