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Thursday, January 06, 2005

Comments

Susan

Thank You Marc -- I so hardily agree with your analysis, it was a pleasure to read, and you spoke to just plain common sense -- then too that is the very reason why I am quite addicted to this blog.

Brian Siano

FYI, Marc, the man who came up with the jackass as a symbol of the Democratic Party was the great Thomas Nast. Can't blame him, of course: in his day, the Republicans really _were_ the Party of Lincoln, and the Democrats of NYC operated under Tammany Hall, and its sterling-brass leader William Marcy "Boss" Tweed.

And Nast also came up with the Republican elephant, Death as the hooded skeleton in the shroud, Santa as the big fat guy in the red costume, and probably a great many more archetypes in the national consciousness.

Michael Turner

For Stephanie Tubbs Jones full statement:

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/oh11_tubbsjones/pr_050106b.html

I love the NY Post's headline for this story

EVEN CHUCK BUCKS HILL ON BID TO NIX BUSH WIN

There must be some kind of contest running at that paper, like "who can write the most dunderheadedly monosyllabic headline?" It' fun trying to say it three times fast, though. And I need something like that, now that I can no longer rapturously repeat to myself, all day, "I am Grand Poobah of the Spelling Brownshirt Weasels of Death Strike Force."

Gamekeeper

Oh so well said Marc!

Michael J. Totten

Michael Turner,

The worst headline I've seen at the Post was written when Michael Jackson got sick: "Jack-o on his Back-o."

too many steves

The two words the leapt into my mind on watching this display were puerile and juvenile. I was unable to decide which I liked better as an expression of my opinion of the Dems behavior on this matter.

Btw, the irregularities in the voting that they objected to in Ohio happened in "minority and urban neighborhoods" for which the election officials are largely Democrats.

Michael Turner

GPW interpretations are at least tangentially relevant to this thread, since Marc kicks it off with his disappointment about the Gonzales on the Grill. So let me favor you with a fascinating link that neatly digests the various problematic memos with which our Alberto-Boy has been involved:

http://lawofwar.org/Torture_Memos_analysis.htm

Gee, all this time I thought I was pulling GPW Article 5 outa my butt. Now it looks like people who really crunch on these issues do it, too.

The administration double-think is amazing. On the one hand, the Taliban are running a cruel, heavy-handed regime. But when it's convenient, they run off to the other end of the boat: it's not a government at all! Why, there are large sections of the country that they don't control! (But I guess the interim Iraqi government is still a government, even though they don't control large parts of their own capital city of Baghdad.)

OK, back to bashing the Democrats over Ohio vote-counting.

GMRoper

Marc, Marc, Marc!!!! How could you waste valuable blogspace/time on this issue? Everyone knows that Ms. Boxer would much rather waste time in Congress over elections fraud/not fraud than truly weighty matters such as the Judge Gonzalez hearings. Why, there is even an excellent opportunity to blog on why Michael Turner was appointed "Grand Poobah of the Spelling Brownshirt Weasels of Death Strike Force" and who appointed him.

We need to know if he appointed himself, was he appointed by POTUS, were there indeed confirmation hearings from the Senate Select Committee on Spelling (let alone the House Select Committee on Punctuation and Grammar)?

Ah me, those of us in the loyal opposition to leftism/progressiveism will not know the answeres to these weighty questions because bandwidth has been wasted on the Jackii (plural of Jack-Ass?). Oh, wait, am I now going to be a "Target" of the Grand Poobah of the Spelling Brownshirt Weasels of Death Strike Force?? The world awaits an answer!

Michael Turner

I need people's help in figuring out what to make of the following:

http://www.ajschuler.com/EyeOnOhio.pdf

I'm not sure how they'd quantify the losses for Kerry from what's talked about in this paper - I didn't reach the point where they offered such an estimate. However, let's say even half the voter discouragement stories in this paper have some substance. That would suggest to me that pulling a publicity stunt of the kind that Stephanie Tubbs Jones has now done (with Boxer weighing in, quotes from Hillary Clinton and Jesse Jackson being elicited, etc.) could have strategic value for the Dems in the next election. But ONLYL if the stunt - however embarrassing it may seem at the moment - spurs some sort of action to clean up the Ohio electoral system in the next year or so. After all, Ohio will probably be a swing state in 2008 as well. There may yet be cunning calculation in this seeming debacle.

The paper certainly seems well thought out (from a propaganda point of view at least) and nicely structured. Also, I haven't seen any spelling errors so far, generally a good sign.

GMRoper: haven't you heard? I've been purged from the SBWDSF for a spelling error in this forum, and the Punctuation Partisan Weasels of Truth Liberation Front have also denied me membership.

There is some group of disgruntled ex-members of both parties called Dangling Participle Weasels of Vengeance Storm Troopers, but when I submitted a membership application on their website, I just got a dead link.

This is the worst week of my life.

"those of us in the loyal opposition to leftism/progressiveism"

Don't you have to have the privilege of your side being out of power and reduced to hopeless, even hapless, symbolic gestures to qualify as a "loyal opposition" ?

GMRoper

I've been purged from the SBWDSF for a spelling error in this forum, and the Punctuation Partisan Weasels of Truth Liberation Front have also denied me membership.

I am truly sorry to hear that. Is it possible for you to tell us if they purged you with harsh ex-lax or the kinder, more gentle milk of magnesia? On the other hand, i dont cee why they wuld purge yu fer a simpl spellin errer. Why, in my day spellin errers wuz part of th larnen proses.

reg

sorry, forgot to include my top-secret psuedonym so you know who I'm not

GMRoper

I've been purged from the SBWDSF for a spelling error in this forum, and the Punctuation Partisan Weasels of Truth Liberation Front have also denied me membership.

I am truly sorry to hear that. Is it possible for you to tell us if they purged you with harsh ex-lax or the kinder, more gentle milk of magnesia? On the other hand, i dont cee why they wuld purge yu fer a simpl spellin errer. Why, in my day spellin errers wuz part of th larnen proses.

reg

I thought that Brownshirt group were the guys mentioned in the previous thread who administered the serial enemas...

GMRoper

Michael Turner, Thanks for the Link (yes, this is a serious comment as opposed to the one above) here http://www.ajschuler.com/EyeOnOhio.pdf

What I make of that, since you asked for "peoples" help (I'm still a people, though conservative) is that it is a well thought out, well crafted beautifully written conspiracy theory.

AJSchuler is to be commended for how well put together that document is. On the other hand, just because you buy into a conspiracy theory, and can explain that theory quite well, doesn't mean you aren't paranoid. Schuler starts off by alleging that more Floridians voted for Gore than For Bush. That alone has been debunked by numerous re-counts headed by those who definately did not have a predilection to support a bush presidency.

Was Florida close in '00? You bet it was. Did the supreme court err in it's final 5-4 judgment? Possibly even perhaps arguably. Did the earlier 7-2 decision err? less likely, but it was the vote that set up the final vote.

Thems my thoughts, no doubt some here will disagree. It's a moot point anyway.

GMRoper

Reg, :-)

Marc Davidson

I'll take a leap into the jaws of death here, for the sake of the thread, by offering a defense of the much-maligned Democratic Party.
This parliamentary maneuver by a few brave souls was an attempt to bring an issue to the public's attention that many, including myself, believe to be an important one, specifically the need for electoral reform. Is there anyone here who will deny that the amount of voter disenfranchisement in this country greatly exceeds that of any other western democracy? What is especially scandalous is that the victims of this live in predominately underserved areas. We can debate about the causes, but there is no denying that poor and minority voters are less likely to have their votes counted accurately (let alone be able to vote) than the average citizen. Yesterday's electoral college certification may seem, for some, to be an inappropriate venue for debating this issue; however, in a government controlled by a single party, it is unlikely that this issue will be brought up in the normal way. The reforms introduced after the debacle of 2000, for instance, were insulting. As the principle beneficiary of the current system, the Republican Party has very little interest in making many changes. As a result of it's minority status in the government, the Democrats' only strategy to stop an ultra-conservative agenda, short of remaining supine or in being co-opted by the Republicans, is to engage in rear-guard actions. For all you side-line grenade lobbers, get used to it. I, for one, am happy to see that not everyone is content to lie in front of the steam roller.
Was this a distraction from the important Gonzales hearing? I don't know. The media seemed to give the hearing more air time than the contested election. Barbara Boxer is not on the Judiciary Committee, and the Democrats had nothing to say about the scheduling conflict. But Congress is a big place and most people can walk and chew gum at the same time.

reg

Marc - OT but the Newfield thread is RIP, so I'll note here that I ordered "Somebody's Gotta Tell It" based on your comments (from HalfCom - always beats the shit out of Amazon as an online book source, and yes I still patronize real book stores regularly), I'm most of the way through it and it's a great read from a great guy about a great era. I'm nearly a decade younger than Jack but roughly of that generation, with many of the same heroes and obsessions and even some shared experiences. I lost touch with his writing when he left the Voice for various NYC dailies, until he started turning up in The Nation fairly recently (and quite frankly, elevated the magazine). Now I'm missing him even more than I realized when I saw the first obit. There's damn few like him left.

jim hitchcock

Didn't I hear someplace that Bush has a Cabinet position opening up as the Imperial Wizard of Semi Illiterate Sentence Construction
- Knights of Temescula Order (SISCKOTO) ?

reg

Thanks MD, for defending the Democratic Party. It's a dirty job and usually I'm one of the few folks doing it. Just couldn't get it up this morning... (Incidentally, defending the party doesn't position you between "the jaws of death". I wish it did, because that would mean we were in the midst of a real struggle over fundamental issues. Your leap was into the jaws of a yawn...but it still takes a certain kind of courage.)

Woody

The Democrats don't think that an election is over until they get a count in their favor, so they keep protesting and keep counting to that end. Why, even John Kerry didn't object to this spectacle, as though he was still holding out hope. Ohio wasn't exactly like the Washington governor's race where previously missing, mystery votes gave the Democrat her first lead. Sen. Boxer even mentioned that people were disinfranchised because their legs began to hurt, so they had to go home before reaching the front of the line. Well, let's go find those people and maybe they can get 120,000 to change the election. After Gore tried to steal the election in 2000 with unprecedented tactics, the elections since then have changed forever.

too many steves

I am much less willing to give the Dems kudos for their supposed courage on this issue.

A question - who, if anyone, would disagree agree with this:

We must reform the system so that EVERY intended vote is properly recorded and counted.

Answer: The person or group that expected any suspect or missing votes to be counted against them.

reg

Hitchcock - I think you're confusing that regional group of Bush partisans with the President's Office of Faith-Based Pronunciations. Originally hatched as a means of channeling fundamentalist theological advice on various public policies into the Oval Office, Bush didn't quite get it and chose as Director one of Laura's old friends, a Middle School teacher from Luchenbach Texas who'd been teaching English as a Second Language to the children of a bunch of good ol' boys who's penchant for speaking with a mouth full of chewing tobacco had actually given rise to what has been identified by linguists as a distinct dialect. Once the appointment was made, nobody had the heart to tell the Prez...

reg

Yeah, Woody...the Dems stole the Washington governors race. That's why the GOP loser wants a RE-VOTE. (If he'd been on his toes, he'd have flown in thugs to intimidate the election officials before the recount could be finished.)

And you guys call US sore losers ?

reg

Incidentally, Woody, my son is an Ohio voter and had to stand in line for over SIX HOURS. I don't know who's to blame for that - but it's not funny or a trivial problem beneath concern and I'm glad somebody, somewhere is raising it as an issue for election reform.

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